Timoney Stones

A few of the Timoney Stones

Do over 300 standing stones date to ancient times as their appearance might suggest or are they an elaborate landlords “folly” built sometime in the 1800s?  
I was lucky enough to find a website put together by relatives of Jim Ryan, a local historian who wrote about the area in 1980.

http://www.mie.ie/staff/sdelaney/Book/indexbook.htm

I decided an interesting way to look at whether they are ancient or not is to examine a time line of the information that I have on them and look at how they appear and disappear in and out of history.

1814 – "Hutchinson planted many groves of trees in the area in 1814 to make the land more attractive as it is natural rocky. It is possible that these stones were erected by Hutchinson. There is evidence that this is not this is not the case and this comes in the form of William's son, John Dawson Hutchinson. John wrote diaries which mention the changes to the land made by his father. He mentions that the origin of the stones are unknown. He says, "...there are several of these (stones) through the land...Several have bee rooted (removed) by tenants and some in the course of the improvements carried on here... I cannot pretend to say what might have been their use." (Parker-Hutchinson Papers, NLI, p123)" From www.standingstone.ie)

1833 – A.B. Wynne an officer of the Geological Survey studied the geology of the Timoney area and commented in his field notes that there are “upright stones all over this place” (Stout, 1986)

Date unknown - 6” Cassini – Not shown on this version

1837 – 1842 6” Map – Not shown on this version

1850 – “Before their reclamation, about 1850, Timoney hills were covered with stones and large boulders. This reclamation was a kind of relief work, after almost three years of famine and hunger” (Ryan, 1980, 38)

1860/70 – “the standing stones were used as the outlines of a racecourse hence the name “racecourse”. The judges sat on the altar stone” (Ryan, 1980, 19)

1888 – 1913 25” Map – Not shown on this version

1915 - Mention of the stones in the "History of Ely O'Carroll Territory". Author Rev Gleeson's first post as a parish priest was actually in the parish of Kyle & Knock where the Timoney Stones are located. George Cunnigham (who we seen introducing Jim Ryan's book on the parish on Youtube) writes an introduction to the 1982 reprint of the book and he comments on the lack of references to the Timoney Stones in the book. Cunningham says "This abscene of comment by him has been used to dismiss the stones as a folly". However as Cunningham says Rev Gleeson actually mentions them twice.

While talking about the Druids Altar at Creggawn in the parish of Youghal Ara he says "Similar places are situated in the parish of Knock, Roscrea on the Timoney estate; in two fields the circular stones are still standing"
He also says while talking about Magherymore (near Knockshegowna) which he suggests "was one of those places in Ireland devoted to Druidic worship". He goes on to say that two other of this kind have been noted "one on the estate of Timoney, near Roscrea, and the other in the parish of Youghal Ara".

1934 – “It was Andy Dowling, Clonmeen, Errill, who first brought the standing stones to the notice of the Board of Works before 1934.” (Ryan, 1980, 18)
1935 – Taken over as National Monument (Ryan, 1980, 18)
1935 – Wall built through the circle by Jim Ryan and some stones crushed by council (Ryan, 1980, 19)
1937-38 Duchas.ie - Irish Folklore Commission mentions them;

http://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/4922187/4859342/5018720
"There is a field in this district, it is called the racecourts field. It is situated in the town-land of Cullawn, parish of Knock and the County of Tipperary. There are several upright stones in this field. There is supposed to be men of note buried at all those stones. It is supposed by the Antiquarians to be the oldest graveyard in Ireland. The round stone in the middle is the Druid's altar. It is taken over by the "Board of Works" and may be excavated yet."
It doesn't say say who the informant or collector is / was.

1935-1980? “An Englishman, named Mr. Adams, spent the summer of almost twenty years exploring in the district. He claimed to have come on two prehistoric burial places, one near the Hutchinson cemetery in Cullawn, and the other in Timoney Hills near a small rath on Kelly’s land. I met him on numerous occasions, and he told me he was writing a book on his discoveries in different parts of Ireland, also parts of England. Each year he stayed at Mount Prospect, Borris-in-Ossory, now known as the Leix County Hotel. Mr. Adams often walked for hours after a ploughman, picking up bits of pottery, unusual stones, etc. He found charcoal around the Altar Stone and inside the outer circle of standing stones, which he claimed was the remains of where the druids burnt their fire offerings.” (Ryan, 1980, 18)

1980 – History and Traditions of Knock and Timoney by Jim Ryan

http://www.mie.ie/staff/sdelaney/Book/page2.htm

1984 Stout, G The archaeological survey of the barony of Ikerrin. Roscrea Heritage Society.

“The Timoney Stones are located on the former Hutchinson (later Parker-Hutchinson) estate 1.5Km south-west of Knock village. The original Hutchinson was a Cromwellian soldier who received these lands under the Acts of Settlement who received lands under the Acts of Settlement and Explanation of 1663 and had taken possession of the lands by 1700 (Gleeson D.F, 1947, 95). In 1833, A.B. Wynne, an officer of the Geological Survey studied the geology of the Timoney area and commented in his field notes on “the upright stones all over this place” (Feehan J. 1978, 25). These standing stones, however, were not marked on the 1840 or 1904 editions of the OS 6” sheets. They finally came to official notice when Mr. Andy Dowling of Erril, Co. Laois, made contact with the National Museum of Ireland, through his intermediary Ms. Helen Roe. A survey of the area, undertaken in 1934, revealed the existence of 292 stones of varying sizes, made of local sandstone and conglomerate, and a circle of sixteen uprights enclosing an area 60m in diameter (E16.7 N27.4 S194837). In the centre of the circle was “a round flat stone, about 1m in diameter, and beside it, forming a three sided compartment are three small uprights 15cm high above the ground” (Mahr A 1937, 363). More recently there has been controversy surrounding the origin and purpose of these stones (O Nualain S. 1975, 83-131; Cunningham G. 1976, 77-78; O Riordain S.P. 1979, 149). This uncertainty has arisen out of the lack of a sensible plan for the stones other than the 'circle', the loose setting of many of the uprights and the lack of historical documentation and local tradition. A recently updated map of the complex was kindly given to the writer for consultation by the National Parks and Monuments Branch of the Office of Public Works, who are the custodians of this National Monument (N M353). This map shows 292 stones covering an area of roughly 100 acres. These are concentrated in the eastern boundary of Timoney Hills Td. and the southern half of Cullaun Td., in rocky, uneven, furze-covered terrain. They are confined to an area delimited by recent boundaries, as follows: in the east and south by townland boundaries, in the west by a forestry plantation, and in the north-west by the parklands of Timoney and the road to Knock. Only at the north-east do the stones stop before reaching a modern boundary. No standing stones have been noted in the afforested areas of the demesne. The updated map shows that 101 stones have been destroyed in the past fifty years due to fence and road construction. All the surviving stones in Cullaun Td. are upright, whereas over 50% of those in Timoney Hills Td. are prostrate. Superficially, the complex displays features that are common to stone circles in the south-west of Ireland (O Nuallain S. 1975, 83-131). These include the occurrence of a 'burial' inside the circle, a tangential alignment running out from the circle, and associated cairns. However, further examination of these features casts certain doubts on their authenticity. The flat stone covering the internal stone structure is dressed and resembles a millstone indicating a relatively recent deposition. The alignment of uprights marked on the map surveyed in 1934 is no longer present. They appear irregularly spaced on the map and do not run in a north-east/south-west axis which is a feature of the south-west of Ireland examples. The cairns have also been removed. Because of the quantity of stone strewn through the land, there is the possibility that these were clearance cairns. There are only six of the uprights remaining in the circle at present. These vary in height from 90cm to 2.30m. A feature of the stone circles in Cork and Kerry is a regular grading of heights westwards from the entrance stone, wich is usually in the north-east. This is not apparent in the Timoney circle. The haphazard concentration of standing stones south of the circle in Timoney Hills Td. is unique in Ireland, occurring as they do in no logical plan. They are irregularly spaced and vary in orientation. Many are physically isolated by the uneven terrain. It is the opinion of the author that the evidence against this complex being a prehistoric ritual site far outweighs that evidence which attests to its authenticity. To date, however, there has been no satisfactory alternative explanation for these standing stones. Their dismissal as a folly is a simple but unconvincing argument because they display such irregularity and cannot be said to have made an aesthetic or practical improvement to the land. It would also be convenient to suggest that excavation could shed some light on this problem, but as Stone Circles are notorious for their lack of finds (O Riordáin S.P. 1979, 156) it is possible that the doubts concerning these ‘Timoney Stones’ may never be resolved.”

https://www.flickr.com/photos/13367662@N06/4002188574/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13367662@N06/4002192302/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13367662@N06/4001430245/in/dateposted-public/


2002 - In 2002 archaeological monitoring by Anne-Marie Lennon on all ground disturbace near this site revealed nothing of archaeological interest. This monitoring was carried out under License No. 02E1125 (Bennett 2004, 476). Irish Grid Ref. of monitoring 21944/18391."

2008? Archaeologist Tatjana Kytmanow does brief informal survey of some of the upright stones and notes marks that could only be made by steel tools suggesting a modern date for their erection.

2015 – Survey by Caimin O’Brien – all remaining stones fully surveyed and uploaded to www.archaeology.ie

One last interesting thing that I note from Jim Ryan’s book is that he mentions that in the townland of Newtown, that of the 8 families that resided in 1905 / 1915 that none of those original families were in that parish anymore (by 1980 I assume). It was very much an area that suffered a lot of upheaval and as such perhaps that could help explain why little folklore survived about the stones.
The other reason of course is that they never existed long enough to gain folklore because they were a 19th century folly. 
Video of George Cunningham & Jim Ryan talking about the stones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMbgOT_zpqI

Cattle preventing me entering the field to see more of them. This can be a regular problem.