Monday, 10 February 2025

Civil Survey Notes - Derry Demesne & Ryninch (Lower & Upper)

 


Derry Demense / Ryninch

There may be an overlap on these townlands in the Civil Survey so I have included them together in this comparison. Derry / Cahirconner was the location of an important Mac I Brien castle on a small island on Lough Derg, it was later owned and the location of the main estate house of later landlords such as the Heads and Spaights and similarly is likely to have been a prestige location for the the Mac I Briens.

In Cahirconner and Reyninshy we have

Teige Bryen of Tuogh in ye County of Lymicke Esqr

He seems a very long way away from home but there were links between the Mac I Briens of Arra and those in Coonagh in Limerick.

He is recorded in the Limerick Civil Survey (pg8) as Teige O’Bryne owning 1590 and

“Towgh an Pallicebeg two plowlands wth a Castle in repaire a Bawen a stone house an Orchard two Millseates and the Demolished Castle of Pallicebeg aforesd. Meareinge on the East wth the pish of Doone in the Barrony of Cuonagh by the River of Clydagh meareinge twixt the two pishes of Towgh and Doone on the south by the River of Bealloghy Meareinge with the the pish of Grean in the Barronie of Cuonagh af oresaide on the West by the River meareing wth the lands of Droumbane in ye Barronie of Clanwm. and on the North wth the lands of lane in the pish of the Abbie Owghnie and Barronye of Clanwm. wth the lands of Keapaneake in the said pish and wth the Lands of Droumsallagh in the pish of Towgh.”

 

In Derry the following are recorded.

Connor mc. Mortagh of Derry Gent

Teige O Bryen of the same Gent

Teige Bryen of Tough in the County of Lymicke Esqr

Donnogh Bryen of Beallanaha Esqr

 

So the same Teige Bryen of Tough has land here.

There are a number of possible connections between the Civil Survey and the Hearth Money Rolls.

The 1665 return has a Conor McDonnagh. Could he be a son of Donnagh Bryen of Beallanaha?

There is also Kenedy McConnor – possibly a son of Connor mc. Mortagh of Derry and there is also a Bryen McMorrogh, could he be a brother of Connor Mc. Mortagh?

In the 1666-67 return

We have Dermod McDonogh – again could be a son of Donnagh Bryen (and potentially a brother of Conor mentioned above?). A Conor McDonnagh is mentioned a 2nd time, likely to be the same as the 1665 Conor.

There is a Byren McConnor, possibly a brother of Kenedy McConnor and again maybe another son of Connor mc. Mortagh. Kennedy McConnor is mentioned a 2nd time. Mary Fitzgerald – author of The McKeogh Family Story has suggested in personal communication that the later name Kendall could be an anglicisation of Kennedy as a first name.

(There is also a smaller possibility that these McConnors could be sons of Connor McDonnagh, son of Donnagh Bryen).

There is an interesting reference to a Kendall O’Brien

"In about 1780 a writer records that a genealogical Irish manuscript copied in the year AD. 1714 finds that John O'Brien was then the representative of this branch, and still enjoyed a part of the family estate, which was called Cluain-i-Brien in Ara, where he resided.

The writer was informed that one Kendal O'Brien was living then and was John O'Brien's grandson and heir."

Pg 38 From the History of the O'Briens by Donough O'Brien.

From the "Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licences, 1591-1866" there is a marriage license for the Diocese of Killaloe in 1759 between Kindall O'Brien and Mary Waller. Another record places him in Landsdown (the one near Portroe!) in 1775.

 

So in Derry Demense & Ryninch there are a number of links and if accurate it is almost possible to create some small mini family trees from them.

We could have

Mortagh O'Brien

Conor McMortagh of Derry (Gent)                                                       brother – Bryen McMortagh

Sons - Kennedy McConnor – Bryen McConnor

 

Another possible tree

Turlough O'Brien m Margaret Bourke 

Donnogh O Bryen (Esqr)

Connor McDonnagh – Dermod McDonnagh


(We know Donnogh O Bryen’s father was Turlough and mother Margaret Bourke. See Annals of Arra Vo. 4 pg 108) 

However connecting any possible trees such as these become very problematic as few O’Briens remain in these townlands (at least in the records anyway) down through the 1800 and 1900s as we can see from the work I did on the Hearth Money Rolls.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-ryninch-lower-upper.html

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-derry-demense.html

Hearth Money Rolls - Ryninch (Lower & Upper)

  


In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665

The following names were recorded in Ryninch (Lower & Upper) townland (Reynensey / Rineinchy).

Wm.

Fox

Richard

Carter

Danniell

Watts

Connor

Flenory

Kenedy

McConnor

Bryen

McMorrogh

 

 

 

 

 

There is also 1666-7 addon / additional return.

Adam

Sharpeley

Richard

Carter

Daniell

Watts

William

Fox

Kenedy

McConnor

 

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. At least that is my impression so far.

In this townland this rule doesn’t seem to hold exactly true. William Fox is listed first in 1665 but 4th in 1666-7. Richard Carter & Daniel Watts are common to both lists along with Kennedy McConnor. It is likely that Carter, Fox & Watts are all English settlers. McConnor could be the descendant of another name in the townland or nearby eg Conor O’Brien. Similarly Brian McMorrogh could be the son of a Morrogh locally. There is also a Conor Flannery. McConnor, McMorrogh & Flannery are all likely to be Gaelic.

Adam Sharpeley jumps to the top of the 1666-7 list and is also likely to be an English settler.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Appointment Books 1824.

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?county=Tipperary&parish=Templeachally&townland=Rhininch&search=Search

No surnames continue from the Hearth Money Rolls.

In the Griffiths Valuation (see picture) no Hearth Money Roll names reappear.





In the 1901 census

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Lower/

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Upper/

In 1911,

 

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Lower/

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Upper/

No names from the Hearth Money Rolls reappear in 1901 / 1911.

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?

Hearth Money Rolls - Derry Demense

 



In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665
The following names were recorded in Derry Demense townland (Derry).

Samuell Wade
Robert Costellow
Dermott Minoge
Dermott Ryane
Connor McDonnagh
Connor Ryane

There is also 1666-7 addon / additional return.
Peter Smyth
Dermod McDonogh
Robert Costellah
Connor McDonnogh
Dermott O'Menoge
Bryan McConnor
Connor McDaniell

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. At least that is my impression so far.

In 1665 it is Samuell Wade & 1666/67 it is Peter Smyth. Has there been a change in ownership that quickly or is it more likely that the 1666/1667 is just an add on?

We find that Robert Costello, Conor McDonogh & Dermot Minogue are common to both lists. Other than Wade & Smyth we find that the rest of the surnames are broadly Gaelic in origin. Along with Costello, McDonogh & Minogue we have two Ryans and a McConnor & a McDaniell. These last two I think are likely to be descendants of other people locally for example Bryan McConnor could be Bryan the son of Conor O’Brien. The two Ryans are a bit away from their homelands of Owney so that is curious but not extraordinary.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Appointment Books 1824.
https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=Tipperary&townland=Derry%2CDerry&parish=Templeachally&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0

The Head family are the main landowners in the townland at this stage (See Not Irish Enough by Sara Day). Minogue continues in the townland so you would wonder if there is a connection between the Minogue in 1665 and this Minogue?
There is also a Brien, Kennedy, Darey?, Kent and Shields recorded as being due Tithes in Derry.




In the later Griffiths valuation, Spaights are now the main landholders in the townland. The other surnames seem to have dropped away with the exception of Kennedy.
In the 1901 census, Spaights are still present
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Derry_Demesne/

In 1911, Spaight is no longer listed

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Derry_Demesne/

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.
https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?

Thursday, 6 February 2025

Souterrains in Ireland


A map of Souterrains in the Rep. of Ireland based on data from the National Monuments Service.

"A feature often found in ringforts is an underground passage or souterrain (popularly known as a cave or tunnel). They are usually built of stone but can also be tunnelled into rock or compact clay or gravel. Souterrains are sometimes found apparently independent of any enclosure and are also found in Early Christian ecclesiastical enclosures. They were used as places of refuge and possibly also for storage and can be encountered unexpectedly during loughing, bulldozing or quarrying. These structures can be unsafe, especially if recently uncovered and should be treated with extreme caution."

From the Irish Field Monuments handbook by the Department of Environment, Heritage & Local Government.

Sorry I don't have the data to hand for Northern Ireland. I was mainly curious about their distribution around the wider Tipperary area.


Souterrains in the northern portion of Ireland with the underlying geology.

It seems to suggest broadly that the underlying geology plays a big factor in where they are located. I think the underlying geology may also have been a factor in the location of some of the county boundaries also.

Souterrains in the southern portion of Ireland with the underlying geology.

They may be tricky to read because of all the different soil / geology types represented.

The maps are based on information from the National Monument Service of Ireland, Department of Communities - Northern Ireland Sites & Monuments Record, the Geological Survey of Ireland & Open Street Map Ireland contributors.


Tuesday, 4 February 2025

Civil Survey Notes - Burgess

 

Burgess

In the Civil Survey of 1654-56 we find

Loghlen O Hogan of Gortnaskehy gt

Bryen O Bryen of Curraghmore Gent

Dermot O Bryen of Gortmore Gent

There are a couple of interesting possible links to the Hearth Money Roll records here.

In the 1665 HMR we have a Bryen Bryen. He could be the Byren O’ Bryen of Curraghmore mentioned in the Civil Survey.

Even more intriguingly to me is Loghlin O Hogan. In the 1666-67 HMR there is a Daniell McLoghlin. I have updated his modern surname as McLoughlin.

McLoughlin is often associated with the North and West of Ireland but it is still a name prominent in the area today. Could some of these McLoughlins actually be descendants from the Hogans?

For more on land ownership in the townland see this post.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-burgess.html

However we find that there are still O’Briens living in the area in the 1911 census and Hogans up to the 1840s. The McLoughlin name doesn’t carry down so the Loghlin Hogan / McLoghlin may only be a coincidence.


Hearth Money Rolls - Burgess

 

In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665
The following names were recorded in Burgesbeg townland (Burgess).

John Oath
Donnagh O'Tuohy
Vincint Brooks
Mleaghlen Mullowny
Donnogh O'Bryen
Daniell McTeige
Dermott O'Hickie
Wm. O'Neill
Mahowene Ryane
Charles Ryane
Bryen Bryen
Daniell McBryen
Hugh McRory
Wm. McMoroagh
Danniell O'Bryen
Byren O'Bryen
Danniell O'Kearney
John O'Cahassy
Edmond O'Quirk
Donnogh O'Bryen
Daniell O'Leamy
Roger Flannury
John Hicky
Connor McCure

There is a 2nd roll or add on in 1666-67 and the following are recorded for the townland.
Donnogh O'Bryan
Dermod Hickey
Daniell McTeige
Mlaghlin Maleidy
Vincent Brookes
Donnogh O'Thoidy
William O'Gronane
Daniell McLoghlin

Again this is where putting these all in a spreadsheet pays off. There is an entry that is identified as “townland effaced” in the 1666-67 return.
However the first person recorded in it is John Oates and so in my opinion it must be the same townland as Burgessbeg where John Oath is recorded. So with that the following are recorded.
John Oates
Donnogh O'Comane
Mortogh McMahoone
Daniell Hogane
John Dwire

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. What becomes of this John Oath / Oates?
It is also interesting to note how heavily Gaelicised this townland is based on the surnames and considering its name Burgess which is meant to come from an old French word Burgeis and it is thought to have been introduced by the Anglo Normans in the 12th century to signify a “small borough town”.
The only other non Gaelic surname in the townland is likely to be Brooks. Other unusual surnames in the townland are McCure, Maleidy, O’Thoidy & O’Gronane.
Daniel McLoughlin is recorded as owning a forge / blacksmith.
There are at least 7 variants of O’Brien including a McBryen.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Applottment Books 1824 but I haven’t been able to find a return for it.




In the later Griffiths Valuation (1840s), some surnames do remain in the townland, namely Ryan, O’Brien and Hogan. Normally Ryan wouldn’t be that unusual in Tipperary but it is relatively unusual in the half-barony of Arra. So could Mahowne or Charles Ryane be a forefather of John Ryan who if I’m reading it correctly owns at least 127 acres in the townland.

In the 1901 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Burgesbeg/Burges_Beg/
There are still Ryans and O’Briens

Then the 1911 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Burgesbeg/Burgesbeg/
Ryans, O’Briens and a Moloney reappears.

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.
https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?

Thursday, 30 January 2025

Hervey Morris - 1798 Hero or Genealogical & Historical Embellisher (or somewhere in between)?

 


Hervey Morres (1767 - 1839) A leader of the United Irishmen in Tipperary.

He was born outside Nenagh in Rathnaleen. He was said to be from a poor catholic gentry family.

In 1782, at the age of 15 he went with his kinsman Lieutenant-General Edward Count D'Alton of Grennanstown (near Toomevara) to Flanders and enlisted in the Austrian army. He fought in various campaigns for the Austrians before returning to Ireland around 1794.

He moved back to Knockalton outside Nenagh and initially it is said that he was pro British and the status quo at the time.

However, he became disillusioned and joined the United Irishmen and began work on preparing Tipperary and Munster for rebellion.

He ended up on the United Irishmen's executive and began plans for taking a large arms store at the Phoenix Park.

He narrowly avoided arrest when this didn't work out and made his way to Co. Westmeath where he eventually joined up with the French army that had invaded under General Humbert.

Following the French defeat he fled eventually to Hamburg and was arrested.

His wife, living in Knockalton passes away, probably from the shock of his arrest. He only serves 10 months in jail in Britain and is sent for a trial in Ireland. He wins his case after various errors in his arrest were shown.

He remarries to Helen Esmonde who is an heiress to a wealthy landowner and he lives a genteel life and pursues his interests in genealogy and antiquarianism in Dublin.

He had plans to write a book on Irish history and has a number of sketches commissioned of various sites around the country.

The aim of his genealogical studies seems to be to prove that his family were the senior branch of the Morres family and also to show that his family were an offshoot of the de Montmorency dynasty in France.

As part of this it is said that he concocts evidence including exaggerated sketches and sometimes attributes tombs etc to the Morres family that have no connection at all.

He goes to Paris in 1811 and joins the French army in May 1812 serving in numerous engagements. In 1816 he becomes a French citizen and 1817 a Knight of Saint-Louis.

In Ireland his claim that he is descended from the Montmorency's is recognised and members of his family are granted permission to use the Montmorency name by royal license. However ironically Hervey himself isn't listed as a family member that can use it the name.


He publishes his history of his family Genealogical memoir of the family Montmorency in 1817. In it, it contains "fake illustrations designed to support Morres’s claims, including renderings of supposed de Marisco tombs in Ireland showing the Montmorency arms. The French Montmorencys, however, never acknowledged his claims, even protesting to the king of England regarding the royal licence granted in 1815. His genealogical forgery was accepted in Britain and Ireland until its exposure by the historian John Horace Round in the 1890s." 


He retires from the French army and dies in 1839.

Summarised from Patrick Geoghegan’s article on him from the dictionary of Irish biographies.

https://www.dib.ie/biography/morres-hervey-montmorency-a5980

William Hayes in his book "Tipperary in the Year of Rebellion 1798" broadly agrees with the above and adds a few bits that aren't included above. He was not aware of the controversy surrounding Morres's genealogy and claims. (The Mountmorency bit).

On pg 32 it says "Morres had been journeying to Dublin, liaising with the United executive on behalf of the Nenagh committee".

The same page mentions how the rebellion was to be organised in Nenagh by "the appointment of captains for all the major streets, namely Castle Street, Barrack Street, Silver Street and Pound Street".

Morres is again mentioned as a liaison between the Cahir United Irishmen and the main Dublin United Irishmen on pg 37.

Hayes states on pg 54 that Morres was to lead the attack on the Phoenix Park magazine / gun stores and following the abandonment of this plan and arrests of key leaders, it says Morres lies low.

In some confessions by United Irishmen, it is said that in the event of a rebellion in Dublin - that additional fronts were to be opened up with a General Egan rising in Nenagh and General Morres was to oppose Sir James Duff (in Limerick).

Things differ with Geoghegan's account after this in that Morres is given a larger role in the French invasion.

On pg 93 it states "Fitzgerald went on to inform Castlereagh that General Henry Morres had returned in disguise into Tipperary from Carrick-on-Suir and that he has a list of people he was inquiring after. The sheriff added that he believed Morres was going into the county Galway, and that he would make every exertion to arrest him." Hayes states that Morres "has information that a French force had set out".

Hayes refers to a letter from Fitzgerald to Lord Castlereagh that states "Hervey, "the Rebel General", had made his way up to Nenagh, and that he believed he was now gone on to Killala. He made reference again to Morres's movements, mentioning significantly that he had escaped from county Wexford into the county Waterford."

On p94 it seems to suggest from Fitzgerald's letters that Morres is trying to recruit and arrange people to rise up in North Tipp and Offaly to go to Clare to join up with the French who are supposed to land there.

It then ties back into Geoghegan's history of Morres where we find Morres in Westmeath trying to get United Irishmen together to meet the French army that have arrived.

The outcome is the same with the French and Irish suffering defeat at Ballinamuck.

Hayes says that Morres escapes in disguise to England. From there he journeyed on to Hamburg and is arrested there and eventually extradited to England.

The final mention of Morres in Hayes's book is as follows (pg 97).

“Hervey Montmorency Morres, who had an intense pride in his Anglo Irish lineage, has yet to receive due recognition for his role in the '98 Rebellion, and for his endeavours to involve his native county."

In the next post I will look at some of the exaggerated claim relating to his genealogy. Although this doesn’t negate his record, it does show that you do need to careful when taking antiquarian sketches as first hand evidence.

Hervey Morres and exaggerated antiquarian sketches.

What initially attracted me to his story was the article by Conleth Manning in History Ireland.

https://www.historyireland.com/hervey-morres-and-the-montmorency-imposture/

In it the following is mentioned

"There is also a print of his family home at Rathnaleen, near Nenagh, and it is difficult to know how much credence can be given to it. It does not survive and even its exact location is uncertain. It is depicted as a five-bay two-storey house with attached wings to the rear. A ruined castle is shown beyond it, which was relatively small in the version of the print published in the 1817 book. He must have considered it insufficiently impressive and had the engraver enlarge it for the 1828 book." - Conleth Manning



I know Rathnaleen and I wondered would it be possible to figure out where this house was. From the first picture / sketch (picture 1) you can see an impressive house with the ruins of a castle to the rear and a tower in the back left and in the back right as well. I've highlighted these in picture 2.



It dawned on me that it must be an exaggerated version of the house marked as Woodbine Lodge that I featured in a blog post to do with the name Sheane forts.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2017/04/rathnaleen-fairy-mound.html

What is interesting is that, in what was the back right of the photo, in reality there was a possible folly built inside a ringfort.

There are two ringforts near Woodbine Lodge and a landscaped avenue linking the two. The ringforts, it has been suggested, were landscaped to form tree-rings.


Picture 3 (above) is why it is very hard to identify it today.

However in picture 4 (above) I've marked the house in red and also where the back left tower roughly would have been. 

In picture 5 (above) you make out the rear of the house. 

Picture 6 (above) is a zoomed in picture of the house from the road.


Picture 7 (above) is the OS map of the location.

Picture 8 (above) I’ve marked up the buildings in the original sketch.

So I think this is the house "pre-exaggeration". It is located in the townland of Rathnaleen South and the tree-rings / rignforts hint at the basis of the exaggerated sketch. It was still a substantial residence at the time and I would think lived in until relatively recently as it appears to have electricity going to it.

So I think this was Hervey Morres's homeplace in Rathnaleen. So just to be clear – it seems that the Morres’s were a well-off family, certainly in terms of Catholic’s at the time.

It looks like the main exaggeration / fantasy was in relation to the claim to be Montmorecys. At this remove we don’t know the reason why he wanted to put forward this claim. Was it purely out of wishing to be a higher-status than they were? was it necessary to get by at a time when being a Catholic was a big disadvantage or did he commission people to carry out sketches and research and perhaps he was mislead / they created what they thought he wanted?

Whatever it was it is an interesting story and I will look at a few other sketches below.

Embellishment or just plain fraud (Hervey Morres pedigree)?

When I initially read about Hervey Morres and the exaggerated sketches that were used to support his false claim to be descended from the Montmorceys, I actually went into it thinking that maybe the accusations were false and they were just exaggerated. However when I saw this sketch (below) from Holycross Abbey of the Sedilia there and the caption "Tomb of de Marisco at Holycross co. Tipperary" (pg 399 of the Google books version). I knew then that something wasn't right!

This sedilia to my knowledge isn't even a tomb - a sedilia was a place where the celebrants sat at times during a ceremony so it isn't a tomb.

I wondered could one of the crests be the de Marisco crest of arms, however this doesn't seem likely based on this either:

"Reading from left, the first is a plain cross, possibly the coat of arms of the Abbey.

The second and largest, carries the royal arms of England in a form adopted after 1405.

The third shield carries the arms of the Ormonde Butlers, an acknowledgement of the patronage of the earls of the period and the arms of the fourth seem to be those of one of the Desmond Geraldines. The fifth shield is blank; like the first shield it is only cut into the face of the sedilia, not in bold relief like the other three; possibly those shields were not part of the original design. The sedilia has been popularly known as the “Tomb of the Good Woman’s Son.” A tradition still surviving claims that this is the burial place and monument of the English prince who was murdered locally."

http://www.holycrossballycahill.com/news/abbey/history/

Picture of the Sedilia today. 


I will look at some of the other sketches, they probably aren't as blatant as this one but to me it really calls into question them all.

Everyone knows this effigy tomb of Sir Oliver Morres in Holycross Abbey in Tipperary, right? (Sketch pictured below).

Well you shouldn't because it doesn't exist nor (to my knowledge) did it ever exist!

In Morres's book, it features the caption:

"Tomb in the Abbey-church of Holy-cross, county of Tipperary, of Sir Oliver Morres, styled MacMorres, Lord of Lateragh, Baron de Montemarisco, chief of the house of Montmorency-Morres. Died AD 1620. Erected by Oliver Mac ? Laghan, his Son and heir"

(From page 433 of the Google Books version.)

This is even more blatant than him trying to link the Sedilia in Holycross Abbey to his pedigree where he called it the "Tomb of de Marisco at Holycross co. Tipperary"

It is through this lens that we have to analyse some of the other sketches used in his book from 1817. 

It just reiterates that you can't take old sketches as facts, you don't know what the agenda behind them was.

This drawing of Nenagh Castle (above) from Hervey Morres's book (pg 385 of the Google Book version) is fairly accurate. It seems to portray the round tower, the hall and entrance that are still existing and some of the curtain walling. However it is more likely that the other towers of the curtain walling were round (similar to the existing one and as per Leask's projected plan see below).

The picture (below) is a sketch by Austin Cooper dating to 1784, the sketch in Morres's book would have dated after this so they couldn't possibly have been recording what the actual condition of the castle was at the time, only a projected one.

Lastly the caption on it is

"Nenagh Castle. The Keep or great tower built 1215 by Lord Geoffrey de Marisco, the rest of the Fortress by Theobald Walter, progenitor of the House of Butler".

This is a big claim that I came across before elsewhere and took at face value based on a secondary source. I even created a post about it! However I would really call it into question based on some of the other unsupported claims in the book.

https://www.facebook.com/Thetipperaryantiquarian/posts/2471654693054788


This drawing of Latteragh Castle and Church from Hervey Morres's book (pg 367 of the Google Book version) could be fairly accurate.

The church ruins don't look outlandish compared to the ruins today (see two pictures below) and there is at least the ruins of a castle at Latteragh.




We don't have an alternative sketch from around the same time but we know today that it isn't perched on the edge of a rock precipice as shown in the sketch. Those high chimneys (below) maybe also look a bit off to me.


It is at least associated with the De Marsico's and is described as follows on archaeology.ie

"The first reference specifically to the 'Old Castle' of Latteragh is mentioned in documents as early as 1269 (Cunningham 1987, 147). In 1284 William de Marisco held 11 carucates of land in Laterah Otheran (Cal. inq. post mortem, 321), and by 1384 John Laffan was listed as owner of the manor of Latteragh (Cal. doc. Ire., no. 269). Described in the Civil Survey 1654-6 as a 'ruined castle & a Barbicon' the proprietor in 1640 being listed as Sir John Morres (Simington 1934, vol. 2, 225). Present remains consist of a natural hillock which has been scarped and flattened on top to form a low square-shaped platform (dims. 23m E-W; 24m N-S) on top of which are the fragmentary remains of a thirteenth-century circular keep (Wall T 2.6m). A garderobe chute is the only architectural feature visible. The base of the platform is enclosed by a curtain wall (wall T 1.1m; H 3m) built with coursed rubble limestone with a nineteenth-century limekiln inserted into the S wall and a contemporary gateway to the E. A protruding wall returns from the W face of the curtain wall indicating the possible location of a rectangular building built up against it."


Another sketch from Morres's book is of Knockagh or Knocka castle (above) not far from Templemore in Tipperary.

This one does have a Morres link with -Sir John Morres is listed as proprietor in 1640.

It is probably one of the more accurate ones sketches, the first picture is the sketch from Morres (pg 427 of the google books version) shows a round castle surrounded by a bawn wall and entrance.

The next picture (below) is by Robert French and is housed in the National Library and dates to sometime between 1865-1914. So sometime after the sketch was made.


The next picture (below) is from around 2017 and shows what the castle looks like today.

We are kind of back to the start of where my interest in the De Marsicos and in turn Hervey Morres started.

Back in 2019 I wrote a post based on secondary sources that had taken information by Hervey Morres as being accurate.

In the post I wondered was this effigy (pictured above) - Geoffrey De Marsico as outlined in Morres's book (see pg 334 of the Google book version).

However the table tomb that the sketch shows no longer exists (and likely never did).

Manning, in his piece in History Ireland states "A print of the effigy of a knight at Hospital, Co. Limerick, from Morres’s 1828 book. He added the fictitious tomb surrounds with the de Montmorency arms, and further embellished the print by adding an inscription to the base of the tomb surround."

https://historyireland.com/hervey-morres-and-the-montmorency-imposture/

Some reputable sources such as Hunt's Irish Medieval Sculpture Figures records the effigy as De Marisco and so does the Trinity website.

The SMR note on archaeology.ie also notes it as De Marisco.

However I personally think, based on the fraud / embellishment shown to date in my other posts in relation to sketches in this book, that this needs to be called into question.

https://www.facebook.com/Thetipperaryantiquarian/posts/pfbid02z9w8jAvBnPNECKC18NQprgTTXmQz7vFTyLMRUPXR7HLLegWqMGsMCRbXi4moL7Wpl

So the big takeaway for me is to check your sources and try to go back to the primary source if possible.

It also shows that even supposed sketches of monuments drawn historically aren't always accurate and when it comes to history, to always watch out for biases or an agenda.

Thursday, 23 January 2025

The "Lost" Castle of Annagh

Right on the border with Tipperary there was a large castle in the townland of Annagh in Co. Limerick. It was in the Barony of Owneybeg or part of Owney O'Mulryan - aka Ryan Country. 

The castle was the residence of William O'Mulryan who was one of the last chiefs of the O'Mulryan clan. 

On the Down Survey maps below we can clearly see an impressive building. 


And here.


In the Civil Survey for Limerick, the townland of Annagh is owned by a John Ryan Esqr (this may be William's Son) and the following is described there. 

"Annagh three qarters of land wth a Castle two Orchards and a mill seate". 

So somewhere between the 1650s and the 1840s it is completely destroyed without a trace. 

According to Tierney in "The Parish of Murroe & Boher", the lands were confiscated in the 1650s, firstly coming into the possession of Col. Richard Lawrence until 1666 when the lands were granted to Roger, Earl of Orrery. He was an absentee landlord.

Next a Sir Thomas Hackett leased the lands in 1673. Hackett was eventually declared bankrupt in 1700. George Evans later bought the lands and leased them to John Waltho and then Joseph Barrington. 
Finally in 1840 Sir Matthew Barrington bought the lands and they were held by that family until the 1920s. 

Sir Thomas Hackett's papers are available to view at Glenstal Abbey by appointment. 


It may be possible that there are some maps or references to the castle in those or in the Barrington papers which Tierney also references. 

It is not mentioned in the OS Name Books or Letters and is not marked on the 1840s OS maps.



 
When you look at the present day aerial photos for the area, normally even if a castle is destroyed above ground, you should be able to see some kind of crop-mark. Unfortunately it isn't apparent in pretty much any aerial views I have seen. 

Also there is the question of where did all the stone from the castle go? Was it reused somewhere and if so where? 

There is one aerial view that is from the dry spell in 2020 that maybe is a clue. 




It is however less clear when you zoom in. 



And on other aerial views. 



So is this the location of this Ryan castle and what happened for it to be completely demolished? 

Local historian Pakie Ryan, in a personal communication, also informed me that a field directly across from the medieval church in Annagh was known locally as "The Castle Field". 
However this field doesn't seem to be in the correct location in relation to the Down Survey maps (which were fairly accurate). However it is the local knowledge so can't be discounted.  



Sunday, 19 January 2025

Ryans - "To Hell or to Connacht"

'Confiscation cannot take away a right'

(The O'Donoghue to Sir Marmaduke Travers in Charles Lever's Novel The O'Donoghue, 1845) via Marnane's From Landed Estates to Family Farms. Land Ownership in Tipperary

See this wikipedia link for more about the Act for the Settlement of Ireland 

Act for the Settlement of Ireland 1652 - Wikipedia

I have been working on trying to figure out the original townland names for as many of the Ryans that feature in Simington's Transplantation to Connacht and tieing in where they were scheduled to be transplanted to. 

That has expanded out a little to include those mentioned in O'Mahoneys paper in the North Munster Antiquarian Journal - "Cromwellian Transplantation from Limerick"

This is the spreadsheet tracking the work below. Those coloured red I have been able to identify placename wise and have written about. 

Link here

If anyone can identify any of the placenames I haven't been able to find, let me know. It would be a great help. 

The links below are to the individual placenames / individuals. 

Turraheen 

Ballyoughter

Mongfune

Clonalough

Tullow

Attybrick

Allengort

Ballyhourigan

Drumbane

Glenculloo / Bauraglanna 

Cooldotia

Ballycahane

Oakhampton

Cragg

Mogland

Finnahy

Glengar

Sadlierswell

Sunday, 12 January 2025

Civil Survey Notes - Allengort

 

In the Civil Survey we have the following owners for Aghluggart.

Richard Laffan of Newtown Esqr.

Donogh Ryan of Aghluggart

Donogh Ryan of Allengort is listed in Simington’s Transplantation to Connacht to be transplanted to Feacle (Upper) in Co. Clare.

There are Ryans recorded in the Griffiths Valuation for Feacle Parish in Clare but no one that stands out as a potential descendant of a displaced Ryan (ie with a larger than normal holding).

We don’t have a Hearth Money Roll for the townland so we can’t compare that to see if Donogh Ryan is still in Allengort in 1665/66/67.

In the Tithe Applotments there are no Ryans recorded.

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?county=Tipperary&parish=Moyaliff&townland=Allengort&search=Search




In the Griffiths Valuation for Allengort there is only one Ryan with a small holding.  

There is however still a Ryan in the 1901 census for the townland.

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Gortkelly/Allengort/1703792/

And still in 1911

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Gortkelly/Allengort/1703792/

So we don’t really know what became of this Donogh Ryan in Allengort. Whatever happened to him it is likely that his descendants didn’t prosper but they may at least have survived.