In the post I wondered was this effigy (pictured) - Geoffrey De Marsico as outlined in Morres's book (see pg 334 of the Google book version).
However the table tomb that the sketch shows no longer exists (and likely never did).
Manning in his piece in History Ireland states "A print of the effigy of a knight at Hospital, Co. Limerick, from Morres’s 1828 book. He added the fictitious tomb surrounds with the de Montmorency arms, and further embellished the print by adding an inscription to the base of the tomb surround."
https://www.historyireland.com/hervey-morres-and-the-montmorency-imposture/
Some reputable sources such as Hunt's Irish Medieval Sculpture Figures records the effigy as De Marisco and so does the Trinity website.
http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/38941/ertk2167.jpg?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
The SMR note on archaeology.ie also notes it as De Marisco.
However I personally would be thinking, based on the fraud / embellishment shown to date in my other posts in relation to sketches in this book, that this needs to be called into question.
https://www.facebook.com/Thetipperaryantiquarian/posts/pfbid02z9w8jAvBnPNECKC18NQprgTTXmQz7vFTyLMRUPXR7HLLegWqMGsMCRbXi4moL7Wpl
To follow the thread on Hervey Morres
https://www.facebook.com/Thetipperaryantiquarian/posts/pfbid024i1Jgv3bh3xwM8HcREVcPAtr8pgyUk8Bs5nh37FCTsz7gmUZGEUpM6rs4KZLY6rJl
So the big takeaway for me is to check your sources and try to go back to the primary source if possible.
It also shows that even supposed sketches of monuments drawn at a certain date aren't
Is this an effigy of the man that built Nenagh Castle 800 years ago?
This effigy of a Knight is located in the Church of the Hospital of Any in Hospital Co. Limerick.
It is believed to be the figure of Geoffrey de Marisco, an Anglo-Norman knight who founded the Hospital in 1215.
It is believed to be the figure of Geoffrey de Marisco, an Anglo-Norman knight who founded the Hospital in 1215.
Geoffrey seems to have connections to the Tipperary area in that possibly either himself, his father (or maybe a brother) was also known as Jordan de Marisco, who the town of Cloughjordan was called after (he owned a tower-house there).
It may have been his son William (or another Jordan) that married a daughter of the Lord of Latteragh as a William de Marisco is listed at the tower-house of Latteragh in 1254 (He was granted a weekly market here in 1254).
The surname De Marisco later became Morris, Morrissey or Fitzmaurice.
The connections are a bit sketchy as I've read other versions to the source above but it is fair to say that the De Marisco's / Morris family had strong connections with the Tipperary area.
This link here even suggests that he may been responsible for building Nenagh Castle?
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/history
Update:
A History of Hospital and its Environs by Michael F. O'Sullivan seems to disagree with this idea (pg10), it states
"The Knight in the Corner
The effigy of a knight in armour of the period, in the north eastern corner of the abbey, is probably from the tomb of Roger Outlawe, Grand Prior from 1315 - 1340. Prior Outlawe was the first Grand Prior that we know to have been definitely born in Ireland. His family, one of recognised standing and wealth, had been established in Kilkenny for over 100 years before he was born.
Roger Outlawe was one of the most notable men of his day in Ireland and held many of the highest offices in the state. His services in the field against the forces of Edward Bruce were rewarded by crown grants and leases, and though much of his land was laid waste during the war, he successfull made good the damage."
Update:
The more up to date paper "The archaeology of the Irish Hospitaller preceptories of Mourneabbey and Hospital in context" by Eamonn Cotter featuring in the book Soldiers of Christ seems to confirm that the above effigy is Geoffrey de Marisco.
pg 119
"standing in the south-east corner, is of a knight and lady, dated by Hunt to the second half of the thirteenth century and said by him be 'the earliest double effigal tomb in Ireland, and perhaps earlier than any in England also'. The second effigy is of a single knight, dated by Hunt to 1260 and discussed elsewhere in this volume by Paul Caffrey. Hunt suggests it represents a member of the de Marisco family, one of whom - Geoffrey - founded this preceptory in 1215. A nineteeth - century genealogy of the de Marisco family shows an illustration of the effigy lying on a chest-tomb and specifically identifies it as representing Geoffrey de Marisco. Hunt cites another source, Memoirs of the family of Grace, as showing an illustration of the effigy on a tomb-chest, but concludes that the tomb-chest is 'probably imaginary'. Significantly, a photograph in Trinity College Dublin's online Edwin Rae collection shows the effigy lying in a niche in the north wall, near the north-eastern corner of the church, a common location for a founder's memorial. This may have been its original position and it is likely that it does indeed represent Geoffrey de Marisco, who died in France in 1245."
Caffery in "Visual culture of Hospitaller Knights of the Priory of Ireland" also in the same book above then states on pg 155
"There are the remains of three effigy tombs in the ruins of the church of the preceptory of Any dedicated to St John the Baptist at Hospital, Co. Limerick. The preceptory of Knockainy or Any was founded by Geoffrey de Marisco (d. 1245). in 1200 and the most intact effigy is traditionally associated with him. Plates of the ruins and the effigy were engraved to illustrate Hervey de Montmorency Morres' romantic Genealogical memoir of the family of Montmorency styled de Marisco or Morres (1817) complete with an elaborate tomb decorated with the Morres arms, consisting of a cross between four eagles (fig. 8.5)."
The confusion in O'Sullivans book may be as a result of the following
pg 157
"One of the other tombs may have been sculpted for Roger Outlaw (d. 1341), prior of Kilmainham (1317-41) who died at the hospital at Any and was buried there. There is also a large double effigy tomb depicting a knight and his dame."
So it is likely then that there is an effigy of Geoffry de Marisco and also of Roger Outlaw.
Update:
A History of Hospital and its Environs by Michael F. O'Sullivan seems to disagree with this idea (pg10), it states
"The Knight in the Corner
The effigy of a knight in armour of the period, in the north eastern corner of the abbey, is probably from the tomb of Roger Outlawe, Grand Prior from 1315 - 1340. Prior Outlawe was the first Grand Prior that we know to have been definitely born in Ireland. His family, one of recognised standing and wealth, had been established in Kilkenny for over 100 years before he was born.
Roger Outlawe was one of the most notable men of his day in Ireland and held many of the highest offices in the state. His services in the field against the forces of Edward Bruce were rewarded by crown grants and leases, and though much of his land was laid waste during the war, he successfull made good the damage."
Update:
The more up to date paper "The archaeology of the Irish Hospitaller preceptories of Mourneabbey and Hospital in context" by Eamonn Cotter featuring in the book Soldiers of Christ seems to confirm that the above effigy is Geoffrey de Marisco.
pg 119
"standing in the south-east corner, is of a knight and lady, dated by Hunt to the second half of the thirteenth century and said by him be 'the earliest double effigal tomb in Ireland, and perhaps earlier than any in England also'. The second effigy is of a single knight, dated by Hunt to 1260 and discussed elsewhere in this volume by Paul Caffrey. Hunt suggests it represents a member of the de Marisco family, one of whom - Geoffrey - founded this preceptory in 1215. A nineteeth - century genealogy of the de Marisco family shows an illustration of the effigy lying on a chest-tomb and specifically identifies it as representing Geoffrey de Marisco. Hunt cites another source, Memoirs of the family of Grace, as showing an illustration of the effigy on a tomb-chest, but concludes that the tomb-chest is 'probably imaginary'. Significantly, a photograph in Trinity College Dublin's online Edwin Rae collection shows the effigy lying in a niche in the north wall, near the north-eastern corner of the church, a common location for a founder's memorial. This may have been its original position and it is likely that it does indeed represent Geoffrey de Marisco, who died in France in 1245."
Caffery in "Visual culture of Hospitaller Knights of the Priory of Ireland" also in the same book above then states on pg 155
"There are the remains of three effigy tombs in the ruins of the church of the preceptory of Any dedicated to St John the Baptist at Hospital, Co. Limerick. The preceptory of Knockainy or Any was founded by Geoffrey de Marisco (d. 1245). in 1200 and the most intact effigy is traditionally associated with him. Plates of the ruins and the effigy were engraved to illustrate Hervey de Montmorency Morres' romantic Genealogical memoir of the family of Montmorency styled de Marisco or Morres (1817) complete with an elaborate tomb decorated with the Morres arms, consisting of a cross between four eagles (fig. 8.5)."
The confusion in O'Sullivans book may be as a result of the following
pg 157
"One of the other tombs may have been sculpted for Roger Outlaw (d. 1341), prior of Kilmainham (1317-41) who died at the hospital at Any and was buried there. There is also a large double effigy tomb depicting a knight and his dame."
So it is likely then that there is an effigy of Geoffry de Marisco and also of Roger Outlaw.
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ReplyDeleteHi I am just looking for the history of latteragh Castle I live CLose by and am just intrigued with local history and finding it very difficult to come across any of the history of this castle / Hall House.
ReplyDeleteIt can't be Geoffrey, he died in 1170, I'm a direct descendent.
ReplyDeleteFor information verified go to Morris Family Tree on Ancestory.com. These are my ancestors specifically 25th GGrandfather. The statute above is Sir Morisco. Lundy Castle and two other strongholds were held by the Morisco family.
ReplyDelete