Civil Survey Notes - Derry Demesne & Ryninch (Lower & Upper)

 

Derry Demense / Ryninch

There may be an overlap on these townlands in the Civil Survey so I have included them together in this comparison. Derry / Cahirconner was the location of an important Mac I Brien castle on a small island on Lough Derg, it was later owned and the location of the main estate house of later landlords such as the Heads and Spaights and similarly is likely to have been a prestige location for the the Mac I Briens.

In Cahirconner and Reyninshy we have

Teige Bryen of Tuogh in ye County of Lymicke Esqr

He seems a very long way away from home but there were links between the Mac I Briens of Arra and those in Coonagh in Limerick.

He is recorded in the Limerick Civil Survey (pg8) as Teige O’Bryne owning 1590 and

“Towgh an Pallicebeg two plowlands wth a Castle in repaire a Bawen a stone house an Orchard two Millseates and the Demolished Castle of Pallicebeg aforesd. Meareinge on the East wth the pish of Doone in the Barrony of Cuonagh by the River of Clydagh meareinge twixt the two pishes of Towgh and Doone on the south by the River of Bealloghy Meareinge with the the pish of Grean in the Barronie of Cuonagh af oresaide on the West by the River meareing wth the lands of Droumbane in ye Barronie of Clanwm. and on the North wth the lands of lane in the pish of the Abbie Owghnie and Barronye of Clanwm. wth the lands of Keapaneake in the said pish and wth the Lands of Droumsallagh in the pish of Towgh.”

 

In Derry the following are recorded.

Connor mc. Mortagh of Derry Gent

Teige O Bryen of the same Gent

Teige Bryen of Tough in the County of Lymicke Esqr

Donnogh Bryen of Beallanaha Esqr

 

So the same Teige Bryen of Tough has land here.

There are a number of possible connections between the Civil Survey and the Hearth Money Rolls.

The 1665 return has a Conor McDonnagh. Could he be a son of Donnagh Bryen of Beallanaha?

There is also Kenedy McConnor – possibly a son of Connor mc. Mortagh of Derry and there is also a Bryen McMorrogh, could he be a brother of Connor Mc. Mortagh?

In the 1666-67 return

We have Dermod McDonogh – again could be a son of Donnagh Bryen (and potentially a brother of Conor mentioned above?). A Conor McDonnagh is mentioned a 2^nd time, likely to be the same as the 1665 Conor.

There is a Byren McConnor, possibly a brother of Kenedy McConnor and again maybe another son of Connor mc. Mortagh. Kennedy McConnor is mentioned a 2^nd time. Mary Fitzgerald – author of The McKeogh Family Story has suggested in personal communication that the later name Kendall could be an anglicisation of Kennedy as a first name.

(There is also a smaller possibility that these McConnors could be sons of Connor McDonnagh, son of Donnagh Bryen).

There is an interesting reference to a Kendall O’Brien

"In about 1780 a writer records that a genealogical Irish manuscript copied in the year AD. 1714 finds that John O'Brien was then the representative of this branch, and still enjoyed a part of the family estate, which was called Cluain-i-Brien in Ara, where he resided.

The writer was informed that one Kendal O'Brien was living then and was John O'Brien's grandson and heir."

Pg 38 From the History of the O'Briens by Donough O'Brien.

From the "Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licences, 1591-1866" there is a marriage license for the Diocese of Killaloe in 1759 between Kindall O'Brien and Mary Waller. Another record places him in Landsdown (the one near Portroe!) in 1775.

 

So in Derry Demense & Ryninch there are a number of links and if accurate it is almost possible to create some small mini family trees from them.

We could have

Mortagh O'Brien

Conor McMortagh of Derry (Gent)                                                       brother – Bryen McMortagh

Sons - Kennedy McConnor – Bryen McConnor

 

Another possible tree

Turlough O'Brien m Margaret Bourke 

Donnogh O Bryen (Esqr)

Connor McDonnagh – Dermod McDonnagh

(We know Donnogh O Bryen’s father was Turlough and mother Margaret Bourke. See Annals of Arra Vo. 4 pg 108) 

However connecting any possible trees such as these become very problematic as few O’Briens remain in these townlands (at least in the records anyway) down through the 1800 and 1900s as we can see from the work I did on the Hearth Money Rolls.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-ryninch-lower-upper.html

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-derry-demense.html

Hearth Money Rolls - Ryninch (Lower & Upper)

  

In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665

The following names were recorded in Ryninch (Lower & Upper) townland (Reynensey / Rineinchy).

Wm. Fox Richard Carter Danniell Watts Connor Flenory Kenedy McConnor Bryen McMorrogh

There is also 1666-7 addon / additional return.

Adam	Sharpeley
Richard	Carter
Daniell	Watts
William	Fox
Kenedy	McConnor

 

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. At least that is my impression so far.

In this townland this rule doesn’t seem to hold exactly true. William Fox is listed first in 1665 but 4th in 1666-7. Richard Carter & Daniel Watts are common to both lists along with Kennedy McConnor. It is likely that Carter, Fox & Watts are all English settlers. McConnor could be the descendant of another name in the townland or nearby eg Conor O’Brien. Similarly Brian McMorrogh could be the son of a Morrogh locally. There is also a Conor Flannery. McConnor, McMorrogh & Flannery are all likely to be Gaelic.

Adam Sharpeley jumps to the top of the 1666-7 list and is also likely to be an English settler.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Appointment Books 1824.

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?county=Tipperary&parish=Templeachally&townland=Rhininch&search=Search

No surnames continue from the Hearth Money Rolls.

In the Griffiths Valuation (see picture) no Hearth Money Roll names reappear.

In the 1901 census

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Lower/

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Upper/

In 1911,

 

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Lower/

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Ryninch_Upper/

No names from the Hearth Money Rolls reappear in 1901 / 1911.

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?

Hearth Money Rolls - Derry Demense

 

In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665
The following names were recorded in Derry Demense townland (Derry).

Samuell Wade
Robert Costellow
Dermott Minoge
Dermott Ryane
Connor McDonnagh
Connor Ryane

There is also 1666-7 addon / additional return.
Peter Smyth
Dermod McDonogh
Robert Costellah
Connor McDonnogh
Dermott O'Menoge
Bryan McConnor
Connor McDaniell

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. At least that is my impression so far.

In 1665 it is Samuell Wade & 1666/67 it is Peter Smyth. Has there been a change in ownership that quickly or is it more likely that the 1666/1667 is just an add on?

We find that Robert Costello, Conor McDonogh & Dermot Minogue are common to both lists. Other than Wade & Smyth we find that the rest of the surnames are broadly Gaelic in origin. Along with Costello, McDonogh & Minogue we have two Ryans and a McConnor & a McDaniell. These last two I think are likely to be descendants of other people locally for example Bryan McConnor could be Bryan the son of Conor O’Brien. The two Ryans are a bit away from their homelands of Owney so that is curious but not extraordinary.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Appointment Books 1824.
https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=&firstname=&county=Tipperary&townland=Derry%2CDerry&parish=Templeachally&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=0

The Head family are the main landowners in the townland at this stage (See Not Irish Enough by Sara Day). Minogue continues in the townland so you would wonder if there is a connection between the Minogue in 1665 and this Minogue?
There is also a Brien, Kennedy, Darey?, Kent and Shields recorded as being due Tithes in Derry.

In the later Griffiths valuation, Spaights are now the main landholders in the townland. The other surnames seem to have dropped away with the exception of Kennedy.
In the 1901 census, Spaights are still present
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Derry_Demesne/

In 1911, Spaight is no longer listed

https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Derrycastle/Derry_Demesne/

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.
https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?

Souterrains in Ireland

A map of Souterrains in the Rep. of Ireland based on data from the National Monuments Service.

"A feature often found in ringforts is an underground passage or souterrain (popularly known as a cave or tunnel). They are usually built of stone but can also be tunnelled into rock or compact clay or gravel. Souterrains are sometimes found apparently independent of any enclosure and are also found in Early Christian ecclesiastical enclosures. They were used as places of refuge and possibly also for storage and can be encountered unexpectedly during loughing, bulldozing or quarrying. These structures can be unsafe, especially if recently uncovered and should be treated with extreme caution."

From the Irish Field Monuments handbook by the Department of Environment, Heritage & Local Government.

Sorry I don't have the data to hand for Northern Ireland. I was mainly curious about their distribution around the wider Tipperary area.

Souterrains in the northern portion of Ireland with the underlying geology.

It seems to suggest broadly that the underlying geology plays a big factor in where they are located. I think the underlying geology may also have been a factor in the location of some of the county boundaries also.

Souterrains in the southern portion of Ireland with the underlying geology.

They may be tricky to read because of all the different soil / geology types represented.

The maps are based on information from the National Monument Service of Ireland, Department of Communities - Northern Ireland Sites & Monuments Record, the Geological Survey of Ireland & Open Street Map Ireland contributors.

Civil Survey Notes - Burgess

 

Burgess

In the Civil Survey of 1654-56 we find

Loghlen O Hogan of Gortnaskehy gt

Bryen O Bryen of Curraghmore Gent

Dermot O Bryen of Gortmore Gent

There are a couple of interesting possible links to the Hearth Money Roll records here.

In the 1665 HMR we have a Bryen Bryen. He could be the Byren O’ Bryen of Curraghmore mentioned in the Civil Survey.

Even more intriguingly to me is Loghlin O Hogan. In the 1666-67 HMR there is a Daniell McLoghlin. I have updated his modern surname as McLoughlin.

McLoughlin is often associated with the North and West of Ireland but it is still a name prominent in the area today. Could some of these McLoughlins actually be descendants from the Hogans?

For more on land ownership in the townland see this post.

https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2025/02/hearth-money-rolls-burgess.html

However we find that there are still O’Briens living in the area in the 1911 census and Hogans up to the 1840s. The McLoughlin name doesn’t carry down so the Loghlin Hogan / McLoghlin may only be a coincidence.

Hearth Money Rolls - Burgess

 

In the Hearth Money Rolls 1665
The following names were recorded in Burgesbeg townland (Burgess).

John Oath
Donnagh O'Tuohy
Vincint Brooks
Mleaghlen Mullowny
Donnogh O'Bryen
Daniell McTeige
Dermott O'Hickie
Wm. O'Neill
Mahowene Ryane
Charles Ryane
Bryen Bryen
Daniell McBryen
Hugh McRory
Wm. McMoroagh
Danniell O'Bryen
Byren O'Bryen
Danniell O'Kearney
John O'Cahassy
Edmond O'Quirk
Donnogh O'Bryen
Daniell O'Leamy
Roger Flannury
John Hicky
Connor McCure

There is a 2nd roll or add on in 1666-67 and the following are recorded for the townland.
Donnogh O'Bryan
Dermod Hickey
Daniell McTeige
Mlaghlin Maleidy
Vincent Brookes
Donnogh O'Thoidy
William O'Gronane
Daniell McLoghlin

Again this is where putting these all in a spreadsheet pays off. There is an entry that is identified as “townland effaced” in the 1666-67 return.
However the first person recorded in it is John Oates and so in my opinion it must be the same townland as Burgessbeg where John Oath is recorded. So with that the following are recorded.
John Oates
Donnogh O'Comane
Mortogh McMahoone
Daniell Hogane
John Dwire

Generally the first name in a townland seems to be the most important landowner. What becomes of this John Oath / Oates?
It is also interesting to note how heavily Gaelicised this townland is based on the surnames and considering its name Burgess which is meant to come from an old French word Burgeis and it is thought to have been introduced by the Anglo Normans in the 12th century to signify a “small borough town”.
The only other non Gaelic surname in the townland is likely to be Brooks. Other unusual surnames in the townland are McCure, Maleidy, O’Thoidy & O’Gronane.
Daniel McLoughlin is recorded as owning a forge / blacksmith.
There are at least 7 variants of O’Brien including a McBryen.

The next available "Census" for the area is the Tithe Applottment Books 1824 but I haven’t been able to find a return for it.

In the later Griffiths Valuation (1840s), some surnames do remain in the townland, namely Ryan, O’Brien and Hogan. Normally Ryan wouldn’t be that unusual in Tipperary but it is relatively unusual in the half-barony of Arra. So could Mahowne or Charles Ryane be a forefather of John Ryan who if I’m reading it correctly owns at least 127 acres in the townland.

In the 1901 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Burgesbeg/Burges_Beg/
There are still Ryans and O’Briens

Then the 1911 census
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tipperary/Burgesbeg/Burgesbeg/
Ryans, O’Briens and a Moloney reappears.

My own analysis of the rolls highlighting the Arra records.
https://thetipperaryantiquarian.blogspot.com/2024/04/the-hearth-money-rolls-in-half-barony.html?